Mateschitz: From our perspective there is a clear limit to what we can accept 24 March, 2014 178 Red Bull billionaire Dietrich Mateschitz has warned that his energy drinks company is not indefinitely committed to Formula 1, and has declared that they have limits to what is acceptable. The Austrian billionaire’s comments come as his premier Formula 1 team, reigning world champions Red Bull, challenge the governing FIA over Daniel Ricciardo’s disqualification in Melbourne over the fuel flow sensor saga. “The fact is that the federation’s sensor has given inaccurate values since the beginning of the (winter) tests,” Mateschitz, who rarely gives interviews, told the Vienna daily Kurier. “We can prove that we were within the limits” in Australia, he added. Mateschitz has said before that Red Bull is prepared to leave Formula 1 if the sport no longer gives the company the sort of economic value it is seeking. Now, he clarified: “The question is not so much about whether it makes economic sense, but more to do with the sporting value, political influence and the like. “We have had it all, but on these things, from our perspective, there is a clear limit to what we can accept,” Mateschitz added. He also expressed frustration about Formula 1’s all-new era of smaller, greener, quieter and more efficient ‘Power Units’. “Formula 1 should be again what it always has been: the ultimate discipline,” said the 69-year-old Austrian. “It is not there to set new records in fuel consumption, or so you can talk at a whisper during a race and the greatest thrill is the squealing of the tyres. “I consider it equally absurd that we are going a second slower than last year and that the junior series GP2 is almost as fast as Formula 1 with a fraction of the budget,” he added. But even though he may not like the ‘new’ Formula 1, Mateschitz said Red Bull is not giving up the fight to catch dominant Mercedes in 2014. “We are working around the clock with our partner Renault and will make another big step in the next two to three weeks. There are 18 races to go. We will be back,” he promised. (GMM) Subbed by AJN. RBC What if the Red Bull sensors are faulty and the FIA sensor is not? Why are Red Bull able to produce a sensor that is perfect and the FIA cannot? If it were that simple then the FIA would use the Red Bull sensors in all the cars. The reality is the fuel injector sensors can be manipulated by the teams which is why the single sensor was introduced. Red Bull know this. They are just playing politics as usual. Mclaren1 Enough is enough. If they don’t like it in F1, go somewhere else !!!!! http://darrenstuart.com RetroRaceCars_ninjamonk Bad fecking Loser. Maybe they should leave, I am sure someone else would take the team off their hands. Robin Ducker They simply don’t get it that it’s not just about them. The FIA sensor is there to protect the rich teams AND small teams. It matters not that it may be inaccurate, only that it is consistent from team to team. Just because RBR can “prove” the accuracy of their fuel delivery system means nothing. We cannot have 11 different systems for fuel, 11 for tires pressures, 11 for weighbridge, 11 for driver weight, 11 for fuel weight ad nausium. And lastly, if Christian Horner ever succeeds BE that will be the end of F1. Texas Roadhouse Bullies need to have their bluff called – if you can’t cope with not winning on your terms, then you’re at liberty to go elsewhere. F1 would survive their departure just as it has the likes of Lotus (the original – a far more illustrious team than RBR), Brabham and others. Hugo Lafreniere I don’t like the way Red Bull is not-so-subtly saying that if their appeal is rejected, they could be closer to getting out, but his opinion on the new racing is spot-on, and shows how unappealing F1 has become for teams and sponsors alike. Severn “It matters not that it may be inaccurate, only that it is consistent from team to team.” It’s not consistent from team to team. Severn “What if the Red Bull sensors are faulty and the FIA sensor is not?” Then the FIA will have no difficulty in proving that. Just as if the RB numbers are accurate and the FIA ones are not, RB will have no difficulty in proving that. I’m not sure why you’re all so desperately anxious to NOT find out which is the case. The FIA have been playing games to try to hobble RB for several seasons now. You can’t blame Mateschitz for getting tired of it. Krunksoft “It is not there to set new records in fuel consumption, or so you can talk at a whisper during a race and the greatest thrill is the squealing of the tyres…. “I consider it equally absurd that we are going a second slower than last year and that the junior series GP2 is almost as fast as Formula 1 with a fraction of the budget,” This is why you can’t listen to people who have lived about as long as F1 has existed concerning this new formula. Formula One, as all the other racing series, does not exist in it’s own little universe. It’s still part of the real world where natural, finite resources dwindle because the earth can’t possibly replenish them as fast as we use them. Our petrol consumption is only accelerating today as the oil/auto industries expand into new markets, so if this old fart believes we should all be stupid enough to think F1 shouldn’t be part of a movement to conserve and use less he should just get out of the game now. We should all be celebrating what a tremendous feat it was for these teams to develop these cars the way they have and put them out for a race with so little testing. You want it to be the pinnacle of motorsport? Well now we have these hybrid turbos that are the most innovative power units ever created. These cars will go just as fast in time and use less fuel but he’s going to complain because they aren’t loud enough???? You can’t have it both ways. Every team signed off on this new Formula 5 years ago so them pretending to be so surprised by the lack of noise is disingenuous. It would be impossible for these cars to be as loud as the V8s with the technical specifications these TEAMS AGREED TO 5 YEARS AGO!!! I don’t believe it took them until Jerez testing to realize this. If Formula One really wants to make a statement they would require all team vehicles to be hybrids as well, otherwise the haters of this new formula will say they are full of crap. I can see it now… RBC I never said I was not interested in finding out what is the case. You made that up. Quit putting words onto me that I didn’t ever say. If two sensors give different outcomes what is to say one is right and another is wrong? If the sensors on the injectors were full proof and always accurate then the FIA would use them. They are not. Which is why there is another sensor. You can’t say that because RBR got different readings to the FIA they are automatically right. If the FIA sensors can be faulty, why can’t Red Bull’s sensors be faulty? Francois Duminy Really not impressed with the way Red Bull wants to jump ship when they’re not winning…Ferrari,McLaren & Williams stuck to the sport even when they did horrible! hahaha Right on! The ECU wasn’t welcome too when they introduced it. Now you hear no more complaints, because Mc Laren did a verry good and transparent job. Richard Durishin How to lose with class… http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/123632-duke-basketball-coach-ks-response-teams-devastating-loss-epitome-class/ Duke basketball coach, Mike Krzyzewski, (one of the winningest coaches in the game, congratulating the Mercer College team who just beat his heavily favored team in the national tournament). And his team didn’t even disobey direct orders from the officials… nakagoli You do realise, don’t you, that Ferrari have also threatened to pull out of F1 , many times already. One of the reasons that they now have a veto. Mateschitz is a very quiet and reserved individual and rarely speaks out. What with the witchunt that was waged by FIA and some teams last year, it is no wonder that he is getting fed up with the F1 scene. He has personally invested millions and millions into the sport. So if he is forced into withdrawing two teams from the series, it is only F1 that will suffer Dave Bates Gillsensors.com has apparently stuggled with meeting the homologation spec while keeping the teams happy. As recently as October, both Audi and Toyota had issues with the sensors accuracy and/or repeatability, but at least had redundancy on their side [pick the sensor you like best? I,m guessing that both Gill & calibratechnology.com will be the fall guys in this fiasco. At present i reckon there is some ” gag order ” in all of this. The FIA on this ocassion have been a little premature in wanting power status and control of the cars while still on track. Maybe a future wet dream of theirs ? but presently these meters are not ” hand on bible, 100%. If this proves the case, then why would a sane person believe in race results 100% ? Let alone apply disqualifications based on a faulty meter. I cannot see a need for the flowrate to be governed, 100kg for every car keeps things on level base for all teams, and then please please ! Let them race to the flag ! regards DB. DCloudy777 Funny how RBR didn’t complain when F1 changes tires in the middle of last year and all of the sudden the RB cars started dominating…. Dave Bates PS. & furthermore, imagine if this control by elite bodies existed in other sports, i,m pretty sure that runners will ” pace themselves ” in each class, ie they will not go hell for leather in the first half & then colapse with exhaustion in the 2nd half. All other sports rely heavily on the individual to control his / her pace in order to finish. I guess footballers, as with many other disciplines will control their own pace. What if the governing bodies of these sports dictated this pacing rate ? Total chaos. Imagine a race from Edinborough to London, all equal cars with an equal amount of fuel. Who gets to London 1st would take great amount of skill, as opposed the guys who go ” flat out” and run out of gas on the A1 near Grantham ! why on earth would the organisers want control of the accelerator pedal ? For spectators of F1 the results would be plain enough, If the car has crossed the line, then they have only used the amount of fuel allocated by the rules. DB. Robin Ducker And Severn, where exactly the evidence for this? The evidence in fact shows that several teams were exceeding the limit, being the Mercedes engined ones – all using identical fuel metering systems – and Ferrari. What that shows is that, apart from the fact that they of course complied with the FIA request, is that the readings of at least 50% of the sensors was similar. Clearly, the FIA has more information. You have written about this before, so let’s be clear: do the teams agree to comply with FIA equipment such as, Weigh bridge, tire pressure, ride height, fuel use, fuel type, wing size, nose height ad nausium….or, do we trust the teams to volunteer their compliance? Because if you want 11 teams to comply with regulations using 11 different systems then you can have it. Except that 10 teams are wise enough to realise that if you don’t trust the FIA then you havent got a sport anymore. Texas Roadhouse I wonder what he said to his own players! Dean Craddock Bye bye then…fancy buying a football team Mr M? Texas Roadhouse I would think that all parties are not making comments until after the hearing. nakagoli He already owns one! nakagoli Funny how they were leading the championship BEFORE the tyres were changed. Paul The quote from the story says it all: “The question is not so much about whether it makes economic sense, but more to do with the sporting value, political influence and the like.” Just like some other teams – sporting value and political influence. Says it all really. Severn “If two sensors give different outcomes what is to say one is right and another is wrong?” The amount of fuel burnt. According to the FIA numbers DR’s car should have had X liters of fuel left in it at the end of the race. According to the RB numbers it should have had Y liters of fuel left. It’s easy to calculate X and Y, and also to measure the remaining fuel to see which is correct. Or it may be that according to the FIA data DR’s car should have run out of fuel two laps before the finish. Since that did not happen their data would be proven wrong. “You can’t say that because RBR got different readings to the FIA they are automatically right.” Yeah, but then I’m not saying that. I’m saying it’s easy to find out who’s right and who’s wrong. You’re the one pre-judging the matter … “Red Bull know this. They are just playing politics as usual.” Barlow Francois, I don’t think you understood what the Big Guy was saying. Through out the world Red Bull is associated with flash and daring!! Surfing big Teahupoo in Tahiti, wingsuit flying in the Alps, extreme Motocross in the US. And it used to be screaming F1, but F1 has turned from a roaring tiger into a quiet little fuel efficient pussy cat. It’s easy to see why Red Bull might pull back from F1, as F1 might no longer reflect Red Bull image!! keaaukeli I am confused. If the teams are only given 100 liters of fuel for the whole race, why is there a need for a sensor? If they push more fuel through the car won’t they run out before the end of the race? What am I missing? RBC Perhaps you know NOTHING about F1 in 2014. The 100kg/hour fuel flow limit and the 100kg fuel used per race limit are two TOTALLY different issues. One is about maximum fuel used at any moment and the other is about total fuel used. One is about engine performance, the other is about fuel economy. Actually the OPPOSITE thing. What the FIA sensor in question measures is the maximum fuel usage at any moment, NOT how much fuel is used in the race. When you have a true understanding of the situation then come back here. You currently have NO IDEA what you are talking about so I can’t help you. RBC The sensor measures fuel flow at that moment, not total fuel used. Some times they use no fuel, when off the throttle. All it does is limit the MAXIMUM fuel flow. Basically how powerful the engine can be. It was done to stop having huge turbos spinning at 50,000 rpm etc. The fuel flow limit causes maximum power to be limited, giving an equalizing effect to all the different engines. The 100kg of fuel per race is a TOTALLY different thing. oldasrocks The Soap Box Derby is for you my friend. Cars built from mostly natural materials, gravity for power, silent as the spring breeze. Enjoy and die from boredom. Krunksoft Funny. Dave Bates You are indeed correct, it should be that simple. ! allow teams to deal with ” exploding turbo,s at 50k rpm, & lets see who crosses the line 1st. regards DB http://bryanvcpalacio.weebly.com brianne he rarely speaks out since he has his rottweiler helmut marko to bark for him nakagoli Rather pointless comment! If Helmut is the normal spokesman, it just shows how serious that Mateschitz is, if he has broken his own silence to make the comment. Robin Ducker You are, sadly wasting your breath. He is an idiot. RBC Thanks. Krunksoft That you for explaining that. Makes more sense to me now… Severn “The 100kg/hour fuel flow limit and the 100kg fuel used per race limit are two TOTALLY different issues.” I never said or even suggested that they were the same issue. I pointed out, correctly, that the answer to which fuel flow rate was correct can be determined by calculating the total fuel allegedly burned according to the different sensor models. “What the FIA sensor in question measures is the maximum fuel usage at any moment, NOT how much fuel is used in the race.” It measures BOTH. The sum of the fuel used at every instant adds up to the total fuel used in a race. Come back when you acquire a bare minimum of engineering know-how. “I can’t help you” Because you’re ignorant. I can help you because I know what I’m talking about. Severn What petulant childish fans this sport has. Everyone criticizes the FIA themselves … but let Red Bull criticize it and the idiots do a 180 and leap to the FIA’s support. The FIA has, and continues, to make a mockery of Formula One in its efforts to influence the outcome on the track. And there’s no shortage of people who recognize this, normally. But the moronic hatred of RB shuts down many peoples ability to think. Dave Bates Nice one ! PMiranda Since you, asked, I just happened to be reading an article in my copy of Racecar Engineering that arrived today, and it mentioned that the flow sensor uses ulrasonic pulses that are dependent on the physical properties of the fuel, and since every team has their own fuel blend, the sensor has to be calibrated differently for every team. So it’s entirely possible that RBR have an issue unique to their fuel. There are also a number of possible issues related to placement of the sensors (supposedly there is more than one so that they can be cross-checked) so I’m very surprised the FIA is taking such a hard line on this. It could be a case of the emperor having no clothes and they’re hoping to cow RBR in to backing down before other teams press the issue for an advantage. Cameron Buckley Main reason for that was the total inability for AMG to control their tire wear. After the change the RB9 became equal if not faster over 1 lap than the Mercedes, but with half the wear rate. RB had never dropped the 2012 tire model, so they gained an effective 6 months of development time on the field. RBC It’s just that the FIA made up these arbitrary numbers, 100kg/h and 100kg per race. They picked a nice round number for both and it makes it super confusing. They should have said 90kg/h for fuel flow and 130kg fuel per race. That would make it easier to understand. RBC Or the FIA are right, and once again RBR is trying to twist the rules to win.