Newey: RB 10 over-heating at Jerez was a result of aggressive packaging

Adrian Newey

Adrian Newey takes some of the blame for Red Bull RB10 problems

Adrian Newey has admitted that one of the issues that afflicted the Red Bull RB10, during Jerez testing last month, was down to overheating caused by the aggressive aero packaging, not helped by the Renault V6 turbo’s propensity to run extremely hot, as we reported in the aftermath of Jerez testing [here].

Speaking to about 200 guests at the RAC’s Annual Motoring Dinner, Newey revealed, “What stopped us at Jerez  was a problem where the bodywork local to the exhaust was catching fire.”

“Hands up on our side because that was a Red Bull problem. It was, you could argue, a result of aggressive packaging. We felt that we needed to take a few risks to try to get a good package that would minimise the aerodynamic damage of this very large cooling requirement.”

Daniel Ricciardo and the Red Bull RB10 stranded at Jerez

Daniel Ricciardo and the Red Bull RB10 stranded at Jerez

“It is a problem which hopefully we can get on top of [in time] for Bahrain. It was really a lack of time…it was something that we could have proved out on the dyno if we’d managed to get everything together earlier.”

“Renault have been up against it in terms of their use of the dyno, we have been up against it making the parts in time. I think had we been a couple of weeks further ahead then that could all have been done in private on the dyno, but unfortunately it was done in public.”

The overheating problem was not exclusive to Red Bull. The other two Renault powered teams present in Spain, Caterham and Toro Rosso, also experienced problems which also caused limited running, way off the pace.

Adrian Newey watching proceedings at Jerez

Adrian Newey watching proceedings at Jerez

Newey explained, “The Renault seems to have a particularly large cooling requirement. Everybody of the three engine manufacturers will have a different target for how hot their charge air is going back into the plenum and Renault have given us a fairly challenging target, with all sorts of advantages if we can get there, but it is not easy to achieve.”

Red Bull and the rest of the Formula 1 contenders begin the second chapter of 2014 pres-eason testing at Bahrain International Circuit starting on 19 February (GP247)

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  • Tamburello1994

    Proving ground: Sakhir.

    Good showing by Renault would set the narrative and hush the rumors.

  • symanski

    You need to run the car as hot as possible because any cooling slows you down. Therefore, what Newey has tried to do is absolutely the right thing for a race car.

    Testing really should be simply to prove what you already know. Unfortunately it seems that rather than being able to test in private on a dyno they had to do it publically. And from that it seems that cooling wasn’t quite as effective as hoped. It will be fixed.

    The biggest worry, however, is that the Renault engine should have been on a dyno with all it’s systems working before it got near a car. Why it had so much difficulty is a mystery. If they had then perhaps they’d have given the right information to the teams for them to cool it sufficiently!

  • BS

    Symanski….yes, when cars are on fire they run much faster…lol

    Now maybe that Newey admits it was packaging, all of you can admit it too.

    It worked fine on the dyno…but when in the cars they were vibration problem and software problems.

    Do you people read the articles or just the headlines?

  • KevinW

    Uh… It did not “work fine on the dyno”. In fact, the article states that there was a lack of dyno running prior to Jerez due to timing of getting parts done in time, that prevented proper dyno testing, which would have revealed the issues encountered prior to Jerez, had it been done, in private. It wasn’t, so as the article states, it was done in public. Of course Newey is going to package the car tightly and attempt to reduce drag, even if that presses the limits of cooling – duh. Why this is being made an issue by anyone is a mystery, it’s part of Newey’s process, always has been. This is not the first issue of body parts bursting into flames, and won’t be the last. Meanwhile, the vibration issue (not even mentioned in this article, for those who did indeed read it, and the one it was derived from) was and has always been Renaults problem, having nothing to do with Red Bull – effecting all Renault teams. The cause was conflicting operation of the software, sensors, and controlling interfaces between the ICE power unit and the ERS systems, which created a vibration and precluded full power operation – nothing related to car design or packaging at all, and one that Renault has owned from the beginning of issues in Jerez.

  • karlich

    Yup, I really, I mean REALLY, hope Wednesday goes well not only for the sake of Red Bull and Renault, but simply to silence the herds of gloating haters 😛

  • KevinW

    Their is no mystery here at all. It took Honda and Toyota a decade to create a working hybrid technology for street cars. F1 power unit providers are attempting to get the job done in less than a couple of years, at a higher performance level, under greater extremes of stress. Meanwhile the teams involved were attempting to simultaneously manage one season under one set of rules and build new cars under another, with many unknowns, since the power units were not yet available to them to work around. At this moment, Mercedes and Ferrari appear to have an advantage in that they could develop the two together, as Renault and Red Bull focused more energy on 2013 longer, and are developing their systems in concert – as separate entities. Whether the other two maintain their advantage, or it is lost as Renault/Red Bull overcome the first test set back will not be know until the season is in process. Their is nothing easy about what’s going on here, as well will see when racing resumes for real.

  • BS

    Kevin…this is an article from Autosport dated 2 25 13

    Renault has unveiled the first images of the new V6 turbo engine that it believes will help attract fans back to Formula 1.

    The new 1.6-litre turbocharged unit has already run extensively on the dyno at Renault’s Viry-Chatillon facilities, but will not have its track debut until the start of next year.

    Renault Sport’s F1 chief Jean-Michel Jalinier believes that the move to more economical, technologically advanced engines will prove to be a big boost for both car makers and the sport itself.

    “It will be a better tool to communicate than the current V8 engine,” he explained.

    “We can get some fans back to F1.”

    Comment: 2014 engines sound great

    Renault’s engine technical director Rob White also believes that the new power-units will provide a good spectacle as well as being more relevant than the current V8 engines.

    “F1 is still going to be very loud, it is still going to be a very violent event,” he said.

    “You can see on the test bed that even with relatively slow shifts on a relatively low transient dyno, that gear shifts are rapid and violent.

    “And the big glowing red thing at the back of the engine in front of the gearbox [the Energy Recovery System] is also going to be a thing of some spectacle.”

    The big glowing red thing might have been a good tip off that is was going to run hot. Beside Carterham got a few more laps in and didn’t light on fire.

  • BS

    And a more recent article from GP247

    How has Renault Sport F1 had to adapt to the challenge of the new Power Unit ?
    It is fair to say that we have had to strengthen the organization and refresh the infrastructure at Viry to adapt to the very new environment of the Power Unit. We have recruited additional staff, some seconded from our parent company to complement the skills and experience of the existing Viry team. Additionally we have had support from Renault specialists and dedicated resources off-site, such as the materials laboratory. At the factory there have been upgrades to existing facilities and investment in new facilities adapted to the development of the Power Unit and its sub-systems including direct injection, turbocharging and electrical content. In parallel we have created new facilities at Mecachrome including a new dyno where the full PU will be signed off before delivery to the track. (GP247-Renault)

    Read more

  • symanski

    Quote “it was something that we could have proved out on the dyno if we’d managed to get everything together earlier”

    So, they never had it on the dyno? Didn’t you read the article or just the headline? 😉

    Given that none of the Renault powered teams managed much at all, if they turned up, then you can’t really blame it all on the teams themselves. Renault wasn’t prepared.

    What that leaves the F1 fan with is a mystery that will hopefully answered later this week or perhaps in Australia. Renault may very well have a brilliant engine; nobody knows.

  • BS

    Sorry I wasn’t more clear….I didn’t mean this article…I meant all of them about this subject…Newey says he “thinks” it could have been worked out….but here is yet another article for you…

    Renault were unable to run their turbo at even 50% boost in Jerez, and nor were they able to get the energy-storage system to run at anywhere near full capacity. They are also suffering severe vibrations in the drive-train, which show up in the car but not on the test bed.

    Test bed = dyno

  • symanski

    That’s interesting. It means that Renault were even less prepared that you could possibly imagine. I doubt they’ve done anything different from previous years testing on the dyno, but obviously the extra complexities are creating huge problems for them which they simply didn’t predict. (Which is a silly statement because if you predict then you prepare for it).

    I’m sure that’s one advantage that Ferrari had when they ran their engine and systems in a road car round their own test track! Not sure what Mercedes did.

  • KevinW

    The comments were in reference to the article under the headline, not every article written on the topic from the launch of the engine and associated press releases in every magazine or web presence. A lot has transpired since the first launch and press releases, hardly relevant now.


    Empires always rise and fall. It is Mercedes time to rise.
    MERCury RISING!!!!

  • KevinW

    The vibrations were caused by the ERS system and not the power components or driver train hardware per-se. A conflict between sensors, activation components, and software were the cause of all their issues, where the harvesting and power delivery actions were fighting one another. This also kept them from running full power. The over-heating was an issue of car design on Red Bull’s part, with fires not in the ERS system, but the bodywork. Whether or not this all could be found on a dyno test, vs. on a car, is irrelevant now. They already made the statement that assumptions made based on dyno testing, proved to be inaccurate, Red Bull has admitted it pushed to hard to shrink wrap the car. It happens. Where it counts on race day, finishing the entire race in one continuous run is what counts. None of the teams have proven they can do that at race pace yet, so the distance between Renault and Mercedes may not be as great as it looks. Running strong in practice, or for 9/10ths race distance then failing is no better than not being ready at the start – as Mercedes has shown over the last several seasons – since no points or positions are awarded for participation – yet. Renault Sport is no slouch organization, so can’t be counted out until they prove themselves inadequate on race day – which is some time off.

  • BS

    Red Bull’s chief technical officer Adrian Newey has admitted that the team’s biggest problem was of their own doing: the exhaust setting fire to bodywork at the rear of the car.

  • karlich

    Well then, let’s hope a Red Bull savant by the name of Vettel doesn’t give Mercedes a call 😉