Were Vettel and his Red Bull using clever traction control in Singapore win? 29 September, 2013 Sebastian vettel made it all look easy at the Singapore GP Former Formula 1 team owner and boss Giancarlo Minardi has raised doubts about the legitimacy of Sebastian Vettel’s dominance at the Singapore Grand Prix at Marina Bay Circuit. The 66-year-old, who sold his team before the 2001 season, was trackside at the Marina Bay circuit where Vettel commandingly won. Minardi, whose Faenza based team was subsequently sold to Red Bull and became Toro Rosso, admits he has been troubled by Vettel’s often multiple-second advantage over his rivals under the Singapore floodlights. “It’s not my intention to devalue Sebastian Vettel, who always manages his Red Bull in the best way,” he told his website. “I just want to tell what I personally saw and heard during the three day event,” Minardi explained. Is there a form of traction control on Sebastian Vettel’s Red Bull RB9? He said he is concerned that, while only just ahead of the likes of Lotus’ Romain Grosjean and Mercedes‘ Nico Rosberg in the pre-race sessions, the reason for Vettel’s subsequent dominance at key moments on Sunday is “not clear”. Referring to the stretch leading into the first chicane, Minardi said Vettel was able to negotiate it “without making any corrections, unlike all his rivals and also his teammate” Mark Webber. “His laptime was also remarkable in T3, which is the track’s sector with the highest concentration of corners,” he added. “On the same stretch, Sebastian was able to speed up 50 metres before any other driver, Webber included.” But the handling of the Red Bull was not the only thing troubling Minardi, “The thing that surprised me the most was the engine’s sound.” “It sounded like none of the other Renault engines on track, including Mark’s. It sounded similar to the engines in past seasons when traction control went into action. “Furthermore, that sound was only heard when Vettel chalked up his excellent performances,” added Minardi. “For example, after the safety car went in. In those moments it was more powerful (sounding) than any other engines — Renault and the other brands. “I would like to have some answers,” he continued. “I don’t want to blame anyone, I just want to get to the bottom of it.” (GMM) Tweet Related NewsMcLaren: Red Bull sent coded messages to RicciardoMinardi: It’s not my intention to devalue Vettel, I just want to tell what I sawHorner: Ricciardo’s good form a factor in Vettel moveHorner happy to have Illien working with RenaultTost: Talented fighter Kvyat can become top F1 driverHorner: Newey very much involved in design of 2015 carHorner: If things are left as they are Renault could be pushed outVettel: Newey said no to me testing for Ferrari in Abu DhabiTodt rubbishes Red Bull’s twin-turbo planMallya: Red Bull cheats on the regulations filippo vettel I can’t believe…I can’t believe…no comment filippo vettel I read about this illegal and misterious tc since Webber in Montreal…FIA in 4 months of races not examined Rb9?! OMG no comment Resultant Asteroid hehehe … OMG, I couldnot stop laughing … Some sites, including this one, won’t stop spreading rumors, heresay, some guy’s dream, another guy’s interpretation of what he heard, in a pethitic attempt to increase the audience … I could say that this site has hit the bottom now, but I’ll probably be wrong as it appears there is no end to this s***. seriously? and Mr. Minardi is the expert in traction control sounds now? and the Ferrari + Merc + McLaren + Lotus engineers and team members (who have been there since the season opening every second of every lap that Sebastian did) couldnot notice it? shame on them indeed :-PPP Remember when they whined about the elasticity of RBs front wing for sometime, and FIA interfered, checked and tested the wing and, although FIA was sad to announce that the wing was legal, still they issued a firmer law for the front wing, to put the whining spoiled cry-babies of Ferrari and McLaren to sleep quietly. As previously stated by various “sane” followers of this site, if u are unable to catch RB fair and square, look at urself and check what u r doing wrong, instead of whining about what others are doing better than you. filippo vettel @Resultant Asteroid: imagine I’m italian and since 4 years everyday I read this garbage anti RedBull…for this Minardi’s interview each italian F1 website is speaking about this since 4 days…I can’t believe…can you believe!? filippo vettel really in Italy the situation about F1 is always this…if your name isn’t Ferrari… Bob Wheeler Old man yells at cloud! KC He sounds like a senile old fool. Ukwhite F1 is a big money sport, understandable the Red politics, Ferrari looks as a prancing pony or donkey or why not, a Fiat. But let’s take the positive of it, unintentionali this old man recognizes the big gap between Vettel and the rest, very honorable for a kiddo. As Berger said a few days ago, Vettel does not compete with Alonso and Lewis any longer, he is against Michael and Fangio’s records. Or Bernie, Vettel is Senna of modern days. Rick DIO PORCO! Rob Ducker Its about time someone had the honesty to put up their hand and question what is happening. If anyone really thinks that Vettel is 2.5 seconds better than any other driver then they are deluded, oh and that is 2.5 seconds while saving rear tires on a rear tire limited track. That time span is a lifetime in F1 and its clear from Red Bull comments themselves that they were embarrassed and sought to downplay it as a freak. There have been rumours about RBR traction control for 2 seasons and it would be naive to believe that rival engineers on the pit wall are unaware of it. RBR have played around with throttle maps for several seasons for a number of reasons but all, ultimately, in the interests of traction and grip. In my mind there is no question that something is going on here. Why does Mark’s car sound different? Do RBR run different throttle maps on each car? Why is Vettel now able to conserve tires, especially rears on a rear limited circuit, AND, lap 2.5 seconds faster? Why is the sound and the performance (remember, the FIA has stopped any V8 performance improvement work….and yes you CAN tell by the sound -rival teams have in the past monitored this electronically) – why suddenly, has the Renault engine the top end to rival the Ferrari and the Mercedes as Spa and Monza? Call him an old fool if you like but I guess what he is an old foll that knows more about F1 that most people reading this column and commenting, than they will ever know in several lifetimes The questions are stacking up and individually they might be explained but taken in total the FIA should be holding an enquiry. Red Bull Cheats @Resultant Asteroid. You fool. The front Wong flex tests were dramatically changed because Red Bull was cheating but the tests were not catching them. So were the engine map rules. They got caught with an illegal ride height adjuster and said they didn’t use it and misunderstood the rules. Red Bull have been accused of cheating for 4 years and each time something IS discovered on their cars that is against the rules. They claim ignorance, take off the offending part, then find a new rule to break. That is the fact. Minardi is not old and not a fool. You are. Red Bull Cheats @UKwhite, Schumacher won 2 WDC’s at Benetton. My brother worked there at the time. They had illegal traction control in his car, not his team mates. They got accused of cheating but never caught. Schumacher and Vettel are cheaters. the fan “Red Bull have been accused of cheating for 4 years and each time something IS discovered on their cars that is against the rules. They claim ignorance, take off the offending part, then find a new rule to break. That is the fact.” this is a good point, and 100% true! clever strategy, find loopholes in the rules, get the needed points before the system is banned. no points are taken away, you win titles. simple as that. Newey and Horner are experts at this. EazyE What a laugh… this isn’t even news or worthy of a longer comment or discussion… and I’m no Red Bull fan. KC “Red Bull have been accused of cheating for 4 years and each time something IS discovered on their cars that is against the rules” NOTHING has ever be discovered on their cars which was against the rules. Some of you people know as much about F1 as you do about nuclear physics – absolutely nil. KC “My brother worked there at the time.” My brother works at Red Bull and told me they’re not cheating. There you go. KC “The front Wong flex tests were dramatically changed because Red Bull was cheating but the tests were not catching them.” How were they “cheating” if their wings passed the FIA flex tests, jackass? Do you understand what words mean? “Passed the test” equals “Not cheating”. KC “Its about time someone had the honesty to put up their hand and question what is happening. ” I know what is happening. A driver you don’t like is winning and it’s driving you stark raving mad. Joe Kinnear Hahahahaha… and you’re telling me absolutely nobody else “noticed” it, Giancarlo? My sum up: Haters gonna hate. Just that. When you hate somebody you come up wit all sorts of accusations. I’m not a Sebs fan, but I admit… he’s just making the best out of the equipment he’s given. When you have a good car, you need to get good results. If not you’re plain dumb that’s it. When he wins too much it’s wrong… if he doesn’t it would also be wrong. What the hell is wrong with everybody. Ukwhite Guys, this debate is crazy and makes me think that this ongoing fight between all of us, if that can be called fight, goes nowhere. And that is to the detriment of everybody’s development as an acomplished individual. There should be a different twist in debates, otherwise we become ridicule backing up the same ideas and that for how long? filippo vettel really tired of these accuses filippo vettel Rb9 is legal…stop chatting the fan How were they “cheating” if their wings passed the FIA flex tests, jackass? Do you understand what words mean? “Passed the test” equals “Not cheating”. im deeply dumbfounded by your intelligence on the word cheating… considering that you said in your previous posts that Alonso cheated in Singapore that rob Ferrari of the WDC… Guess what you bleeding imbecile… he wasnt found guilty that time and passed investigation. ok so whats the word cheating means again? Saša true or false nothing new happened before why not again I think he don’t need it. Rob Ducker For anyone looking for evidence just look at the lap times. QED @unknown If vettel won driving a less powerful toro rosso, why couldn’t he win more in a red bull.. He’ll be on the legend list of all time in f1 Resultant Asteroid @filippo vettel: Man, I can only imagine what u have 2 go through almost everyday, I tried to consule myself with the idea that maybe Italians are more into football and politics much more than F1, but apparently I was wrong :-S Honestly, for a guy in ur position who stands alone against the heavy unreasonable tides, hanging on only to his mind (and logic), the ultimate human organ that separates us from the animals … the only word that comes to my mind is … “respect”. Continue on ur direction man, as long as u r following ur mind and sure of ur choices, the others should mean nothing to u. Resultant Asteroid @Red Bull Cheats: “Red Bull was cheating but the tests were not catching them” U r the most ignorant, arrogant creature out there. I don’t know even how u belong to human beings like us. The tests showed it was legal, and the FIA announced that, and the opponents accepted, but nooooo … they r cheaters, because a pethitic ignorant, full-of-envy excuse for a human being which is u decides so, while sitting at home on his couch. “So were the engine map rules. ” Again, there was no rule for engine mapping, RB were not the only team 2 do that, FIA introduced the law in mid season … but still, the jackass decided that they were cheaters. “They got caught with an illegal ride height adjuster and said they didn’t use it and misunderstood the rules. Red Bull have been accused of cheating for 4 years and each time something IS discovered on their cars that is against the rules.” Now, we are just talking about some jackass’s wet dreams and wishes, no facts or news or links there. Continue. “Minardi is not old and not a fool. You are.” Minardi is a failed ex-team owner and a fool, and I do not know why u r mentioning that he’s not old !!!! Nobody called him old. What’s the problem with being old, unless u r Minardi himself or his lover or something. And MIND YOUR LANGUAGE WITH ME, IDIOT, cause the language I used with u up till now is just a beginner’s demo of what I can use. UNDERSTOOD? A successful driver “driving” u to rage, envy, and anger is ur problem, deal with it, explode, burn I don’t f****** care. But WHEN U TALK TO ME, U CONTROL URSELF, OR U PAY THE PRICE. adam22 SV is 2.5 sec a lap faster coz he farts every corner and its cheating – there you go Mr. Minardi… Berg Why every one here uses foul language & always on the attack. So what if they are cheating. The whole world knows that. Its so clear & no doubt about it. Ferrari did that for many years. Until proven guilty, RB is innocent. Full stop Victor Murga Well the FIA have tried to investigate it, but lets remember the cars do have some traction control for the launch only, Rumor is that the teams know RB are using Traction control but cannot prove it. Much do with the engine mapping as RB writes their own encrypted software for the engine and with the distribution of the power of the engine its very achievable, and hard to trace. They can see it happen but cannot technically prove it. Forza Ferrari @Berg hahahahaaa when did Ferrari cheat in your ignorant mind? LOL The most ridiculous claim I’ve ever heard. Solid proof or GTFO! KC Red Bull were indeed using “clever traction control”. Vettel’s foot on the pedal. The ignition system on all F1 cars is controlled by the ECU, or Electronic Control Unit. This is a standard part supplied by McLaren to every team. You can’t have a traction control system in modern F1. Resultant Asteroid @KC: I’m reading the other comments that look like they are written by F1 Technical experts, claiming that any team can “play” with traction control or any other electronic system, while I’m laughing and thinking exactly of what u wrote. The strange thing is that this is actually well known info about F1 since 2008, and was introduced specifically to eliminate illegal TC and Launch Control. But apparently the laws of scientific & logic thinking and using references do not apply to the “experts” here. They just “know” the “truth”, depending obviously on their ears and minds, and who knows what other body parts. Cheers man. The below link shows how teams communicate with each other in a civilized way about problems that costs them millions, while here we are fighting over rumors that cost us nothing. Cosmos Does it have to be electronic traction control ? are there alternatives ? remember the squigy front nose material ! seems to me that the harder Seb drives into an apex the more traction he has, so if he knew it was available to use at every single apex then increased entry exit speeds are a given factor. Clever..er exhaust blowing. Smart Driveshafts. Smart interaction Diff,Geartrain. Force, Pressure, hydraulic related hubs. Seb does seem to have the extra confidence to enter an apex and know he will come out the other side…..no problems perhaps not so on pre Silverstone tyres ?? Not an issue downforce tyres were made to endure more !! Taskmaster There is one area available for all teams, and likely well known, if not utilized in various ways, and that is the use of KERS as part of the braking system. The rules are pretty simple: 5.2.3 The maximum power, in or out, of any KERS must not exceed 60kW. Energy released from the KERS may not exceed 400kJ in any one lap. Measurements will be taken at the connection to the rear wheel drivetrain. Since KERS is used as part of the brake system, particularly the rear brake system, variations in how and when this is applied will have an impact on the braking balance of the car that is different than simple left foot braking. If under a prescribed braking application, KERS is engaged in its charge mode to produce more rear brake bias by applying a drag on the engine, this in effect acts as a torque limiter of sorts, allowing the driver to stay on the gas to keep the engine load up, using KERS to regulate it in a crude sense (this would also make the engine sound different than others not using this approach). THIS IS NOT A CHEAT, it’s well within the scope of the regulations, and remains limited to the max of 60kW in/out rule and 200J per lap, meaning that if it is used as described, at some other part of the track the driver has to get rid of that energy in order to have the effect available somewhere else on the track, but not use it so frequently that it exceeds the 200J max per lap. For this reason it would seem it would be used only on limited corners, where the effect was most beneficial. Is it possible this is what Red Bull are doing? Could be, but no more than it is likely all of the other teams are either also using it, or have at least tried it. It may be that the effort on part of the driver is more than most wish to fuss with, but in Vettel’s case, he’s found a way to make it part of his routine, or at least has it as a mode selected for various points in the race, then switches to a more normal mode that is simpler to manage. Just a thought. Red Bull Cheats @Resultant Asteroid. Please google “red bull illegal ride height adjuster” and see what you get. They were caught with one and told to remove it with no penalty. Fact. I guess facts like that don’t count because you are always right!?!? Red Bull Cheats @Resultant Asteroid, there were rules for what a car’s exhaust could or could not do to affect the aerodynamics. The Red Bull engine map produced an exhaust output that was against those rules. Then new rules were brought in to specifically stop them doing this. So they had to change their engine maps as they broke a rule about the exhaust, they got no punishment and had to change their car. Like every other time. If you don’t know these facts then why do you come here and make comments? Red Bull Cheats @Resultant Asteroid, try this from a BBC article. They admit to having a hand operated ride height adjuster, but said they never used it. It was in breach of the rules so they were told to remove it. Red Bull have dismissed as a “non-issue” the latest in a series of controversies to engulf the team. It has emerged that at June’s Canadian GP, governing body the FIA asked Red Bull to modify its front suspension. “The suspension has never been changed once it’s in parc ferme. Never” The FIA found it could be changed by hand when rules say it must be done with tools. Changes are banned between qualifying and race. Boss Christian Horner said: “We never changed the ride height in parc ferme. It is a non-issue.” Asked why the suspension could be changed by hand when the rules state specifically that must not be possible, Horner, Red Bull’s team principal, said: “There are a lot of parts that are changed manually on the car, but a tool was used. The suspension has never been changed once it’s in parc ferme. Never. Honestly, it’s completely trivial. Basically what was on the car in Canada has been on at a lot of other races as well, and at no point has it been adjusted in parc ferme.” aberracus This is the sound of Red Bull Cheating http:// www . youtube . com / watch?v=8DwXOPN7ZIM if the link is removed search youtube for “Unusual engine sound Red Bull Singapore GP” Have great time explaining that Vettle Redbull fans… Taskmaster A fallacy is an argument that uses poor reasoning. Argument from ignorance- Assuming that a claim is true because it has not been proven false or cannot be proven false. Just because there is no explanation here as to what the cause of the noise is, does not prove there is a cheat, or prove that other cars were not making the noise at that or other parts of the track, or that the noise was not investigated or already known by those it might concern officially and found to have no cause for concern. Not a Red Bull fan specifically, just sick of the constant bashing of them using half baked logic and conspiracy theories. Berg Forza The FIA learnt so much from the early Ferrari/Schumi era. Big deal…its history…chill out. Red Bull Cheats @Taskmaster. Just because Red Bull have not been caught cheating does not mean that they have not cheated. Piquet Jr crashed on purpose and the FIA never found that out. McLaren stole Ferrari secrets and the FIA never discovered that. Even Ron Dennis didn’t know what was going on in his own team until Alonso told him. Dennis went to the FIA and told them of Alonso’s accusations as he was so confident no one was cheating in his team. $100m fine later and him resigning was the punishment as they were cheating. Therefore Minardi can raise his suspicions and the FIA can investigate Red Bull yet again for their possibile cheating. esteban andrews FIA and Bernie have a vested interest in not allowing Ferrari to completely dominate F1. They first allowed the flexi front wing of Red Bull and now whatever RB is doing is being overlooked by them. Does anyone really believe Sebastian is that much better than Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi and his own team mate who is supposedly driving the same car? Rob Ducker RED BULL CHEATS If you are going to quote history it pays to be more precise about the facts. McLaren were guilty of Receiving stolen information. They did not sponsor it, it was volunteered. Furthermore they did not USE the information in any way shape or form as attested by over 150 people involved including Alonso and PDLR . It is true, as you say, that Dennis was unaware of it, but that isnt a crime as far as I am aware. What was a crime in my book was Alonso trying to blackmail Dennis into demoting Hamilton. You also fail to mention that Renault USED the stolen Ferrari information but were not fined, and that the information contained details of Ferrari cheats, and the FIA failed to act on them, just as they failed to act with Benneton before. Clue: the same Team Boss was involved. Other than that if RBR is getting a 2.5 sec lap advantage using a new EBD then people are kidding themselves, so I guess we can definitely agree on that! Spartacus Nothing has been said about Ferrari who’ve been using some sort of traction control and launch control on Alonso’s car. To be fair, it may be some of Allonso’s brilliance that I’m missing, but there’s been races where he’s jumped several drivers off the line and during a race he’s had much less tyre wear than the other Ferrari. That suggests both traction control and launch control. It’s happened too often for it just to be a good performance by Alonso; even though he’s a decent driver. Resultant Asteroid @Red Bull Cheats: If you already “ruled” that RedBull are cheats, bypassing the FIA, real F1 experts, and even their opponents, why do u come here to comment? Now, isn’t it better to talk without bad words and name calling? I think that u r correct in the illegal ride height adjuster that u mentioned. It was a breach of the rules, even if they never adjusted it manually, and even if the rule is, in my opinion, stupid (it’s like “We, the scrutineers are too lazy to write down the ride heights of each car after qualifying, and measure it again before the race 2 find out if there are any differences, so we want u the teams 2 design ur suspension system so that we can sleep at home knowing that u can not adjust it manually”). BTW, Lotus worked on a similar system last year before the FIA stopped them (do u call them cheaters?) www .gptoday. com / details / view / 404784/ Lotus_front_ride_height_adjuster_illegal/ ?fscomments#.UknfmnfHYis I think it’s good that u r now looking back at evidence to support ur ideas. But I can see that u are still condemning a team that u do not like, and twisting the news to fit that profile a little. “The Red Bull engine map produced an exhaust output that was against those rules.”. Compare these words that u wrote to: www . bbc . co . uk /sport/ 0/ formula1/ 18986375 This is Andrew Benson, who btw is far from being a Redbull fan: ” The verdict on Sunday said: “While the stewards do not accept all the arguments of the team, they however conclude that as the regulation is written the map presented does not breach article 5.5.3 of the technical regulations.” The idea of the rule is to prevent the engine delivering less power to the wheels than it can do. But while the FIA intended it to mean that the engine could not deliver less torque than it was ultimately capable of, Red Bull interpreted it to mean it could not deliver less than it was programmed to deliver on that day. ” Again, “as the regulation is written the map presented does not breach article 5.5.3 of the technical regulations.”. Is this enough for you 2 call them cheaters? This is exactly what happened with the double diffuser (Brawn), with the blown diffuser (RedBull), and with the F-Duct (Mercedes) (which btw, gave enormous advantage to their users). FIA writes rules in a less-than-perfect way, and teams find loopholes to these rules and go faster (which is why they exist). But ofcourse, you don’t call the other teams cheaters. Google the following: “ferrari illegal wing” “mclaren cheating again” “Lotus’ front ride height adjuster illegal” and it’s almost the exact scenarios, with different technologies. The teams were neither banned nor punished (or “caught with one and told to remove it with no penalty” in ur words), So remind me again, why u only attack RedBull aggressively, to the extent that u put it as a “Fact” in ur nickname here? Oh, and btw, I come here to comment because I just feel like it. Problems? Red Bull Cheats @Resultant Asteroid, you said I was making up the illegal ride height adjuster and now you agree it existed and was illegal! If you can be so sure about something, then so wrong, I have little faith in you. Red Bull have worked out how to twist the rules to allow their cheating to go undetected and unpunished. Lotus asked the FIA if their ride height system was legal. Red Bull hid their ride height system from the FIA inside the third shocker. Not the same at all. Hamilton Fan I’m not a massive Vettel fan but it is obvious that Red Bull have the best package. From my limited knowledge of racing myself, obviously not in f1, it is often a combination of the best setup, chassis, strategy and of course smoothest driver who will come out on top. Red Bull are dominant with their results as they have such a good team setup behind their drivers, 99% of the time they call the right strategy which you would expect from an efficient team with so much experience. It is very easy to accuse the winners as cheats but the other teams don’t seem anywhere close to “in control” as Red Bull with their smooth operation of running their cars. Vettel is a great driver in an awesome car, he deserves his results, although I would like to see the other teams catch up. Resultant Asteroid @Red Bull Cheats: “you said I was making up the illegal ride height adjuster and now you agree it existed and was illegal!” Yes, this is the difference between u and me, I don’t care to be right or wrong, I care about using my mind and logic to get to the truth. And when I’m wrong I donot feel ashamed or belittled 2 say it. Did you admit u were wrong about accusing RedBull of cheating the rules of the engine mapping? no. Even if the FIA say that was not cheating (FIA: “as the regulation is written the map presented does not breach article 5.5.3 of the technical regulations.”). You have ur own standards –> ur own issue, the rest of the world does not have to abide by it or even discuss it. “If you can be so sure about something, then so wrong, I have little faith in you.” Same response as above. Actually, this shows how one-track-minded you are. Who told u I even desire ur faith in me? “Red Bull have worked out how to twist the rules to allow their cheating to go undetected and unpunished. Lotus asked the FIA if their ride height system was legal. Red Bull hid their ride height system from the FIA inside the third shocker. Not the same at all.” Really? so, u r saying all teams should go to the FIA EVERYTIME before they change anything on their cars? does all the teams other than RB do this (including Lotus)? There was nothing to hide by RB there in the first place, their system simply could be adjusted manually or by tools, while the rule they breached states: Article 34.5 of the Sporting Regulations states: “In order that the scrutineers may be completely satisfied that no alterations have been made to the suspension systems or aerodynamic configuration of the car (with the exception of the front wing) whilst in post qualifying parc ferme, it must be clear from physical inspection that changes cannot be made without the use of tools.” Christian Horner: “Basically what was on the car in Canada has been on at a lot of other races as well, and at no point has it been adjusted in parc ferme.”, and also, “It is a question of whether you do it with a tool or manually, and it is done with a tool.” w w w. bbc .co .uk/ sport/ 0/ formula1 /19032217 Talking about hiding something? What about breaching the no testing during the season, and collaborating with Pirelli to test the tyres for 3 days (over 1,000 km) with ur main drivers who were wearing plain helmets to disguise them, and using this year’s year in direct breach of the in-season ban, and we only knew about it by mistake … do we see you calling urself “Mercedes Cheaters” ? What do u call a team who spies on their opponents and gets access to the full design data of their car in the famous spy-gate in 2007, that was a breach of probably every ethical code in human history, and still the FIA cleared the drivers from any wrong-doing? do we see you calling urself “McLaren Cheaters”? what do u call a team who’s managers order one of their drivers to practice and then implement a scheme where he slams his car against the wall at a certain time in the Singapore GP, to force the SC car out to give their other driver (who was totally cleared of any wrongdoing !!!!) an undeserved win? do we see you calling urself “Renault/Lotus Cheaters”? You may have some psychological problem with RB, u hate them, u sleep and dream of them exploding or something … but in all cases, and whether u and the biased British and Italian media like it or not, history will hail both RB and SV for those 4 years (and probably more years of dominance to come). So u can simply eat ur envy up.